Charles B. Kramer

Exposing a Persistent Troll

charles b kramer

Overview of the problem

This is an alert to the pelvic pain community. In every large group of people you will always get a few really bad eggs. Well, we have one. His name is Charles Bernard Kramer (aka Charles B. Kramer or CBK, an unlicensed, self-employed, part-time copyright/trademark "attorney") of New York, born 1953. Kramer likes to have vendettas against people. He develops irrational grudges and becomes deeply embittered. Then he trolls from site to site on the internet, using multiple accounts and identities, and proxy servers, to attack his "evil" enemies. A few years ago his target was the PNE (pudendal nerve entrapment) sites, and he was banned repeatedly by their forums (proof below), after harassing their members by email. Now it's our turn. He's posted numerous anonymous messages on the internet, YouTube videos, and multiple reviews at Amazon under different names, attacking and libelling, me (the site's webmaster), and everything to do with Dr David Wise, his clinics, and his books ... and he even takes a few shots at trigger point therapy! His tirades make liberal use of the words "fraud", "quack", "charlatan", "thief" and "scam" when describing decent, honest people. And he uses his status as an attorney to bully and threaten anyone who objects.

My opinion of this troubled man is that he is really quite disturbed (he's even described himself on other forums as "a crank" who is "very bitter" and has a "bad attitude"). I urge him to get professional psychological help. He's been stalking me, emailing me with threats (using his real name), and trying to dig into my life, since 2005, and he is still obsessed and angry about everyone and everything. Because he was banned from (for transgressing the forum rules repeatedly), he's had a huge grudge against me in particular, and now he's expanded his obsession to include David Wise.

Both I and Dr Wise have sought legal advice on this issue, and we are in contact with the owners of the other forums that were used to post the libel. Unfortunately, some of them —especially the forums espousing the controversial "pudendal nerve entrapment" surgery — have not responded by taking action against him because they see as a competitor and tacitly approve of what he is doing. [2013 edit: two of these forums have now thankfully closed ]

What disturbs me most about Kramer's harebrained conspiracy theories is that they are serving to confuse and mislead pelvic pain patients and stop them seeking the help that they need. Instead, they are often diverted to real scammers, such as surgeons who remove the prostate. These unscrupulous butchers gleefully welcome Kramer's wild allegations against trigger point + focused relaxation treatment and practitioners.

I've finally posted this webpage because it's clear, after 9 years, that this angry, embittered and frankly unhinged individual is not going to go away, and we have to deal with the problem he presents. If he contacts you, or you see one of his messages, you are now prepared.

The Claims and Lies of Charles B. Kramer of New York

Charles B. Kramer is easy to spot, no matter what pseudonym he's using, because he always uses the same arguments — a mixture of half-truth, distortions, assumptions and outright lies. I'll summarise most them here so you can recognize them when you see them:

CLAIM: David Wise is not a MD, only a PhD in Sociology, and therefore should not be treating people

David Wise is a Clinical Psychologist, so of course he has no medical degree. He has a PhD in Sociology as well as Board Certification in Clinical Psychology. A person with a medical degree would probably not have been able to think outside the box enough to formulate the Wise-Anderson Protocol (WAP). So his lack of a medical degree is a plus. It enabled him to find new answers instead of the same old failed answers of the past. The purely medical approach has failed utterly for the last 50 years! This is not a medical problem (ie treatable by drugs and surgery), it's a psychoneuromuscular problem.

Wise's California psychology license number is PSY4050. He's been licensed as a psychologist in California since 1973, approximately 40 years. He gives courses to other psychologists for their continuing education so that they can fulfil their continuing education requirements and renew their licenses. He could never have worked at Stanford and seen patients without being a licensed psychologist. He received a Ph.D. in sociology at the University of California, Berkeley and, like others at the time, he was in graduate school with a Ph.D. in a social science and so fulfilled the very rigorous requirements of the State of California for psychologists, and was eligible to take the boards and become a psychologist, and did so. He has done approximately 20,000 hours of psychotherapy. He is part of an interdisciplinary team (psychologist, physical therapist, urologist) that treats the condition.

Charles Kramer Troll

CLAIM: removes posts critical of the Wise-Anderson protocol

As for me removing negative comments about the WAP: it's another Kramer lie. I have never deleted a post made by an ex-patient, meant specifically to criticize the WAP. In fact, I don't think I've ever deleted a report by an ex-patient of any doctor or therapist, and wouldn't, unless they were frankly libellous. I regard all patient reports as very valuable. Wise cannot help everyone, as his published studies show, and we should expect some disappointed patients. Not many so far! Other claims directed at me in particular are that I have edited Wikipedia to exclude everything other than material that supports trigger point treatment (a complete lie), that I set up to support the Wise-Anderson protocol (obviously a lie, just look at the site's content, which has never changed), and that I have used an alias to register my sites (this last accusation based on a 1-letter typo!).

CLAIM: Charles B. Kramer describes the WAP as a "simple cure-all solution"

The supposedly "simple" solution is actually underpinned by extremely complex medicine, namely the HPA axis and its connection to stress and stress hormones. CPPS patients are known to have low cortisol levels, and this can be caused by stress. Cortisol is involved in muscle tension, muscle contraction and relaxation, predisposing to the formation of trigger points. Some of the substances produced by the adrenal gland also determine an individual's pain perception threshold and can sensitize nerve endings, causing the perception of pain induced by stimuli which are normally non-painful (a phenomenon known as allodynia). So stress, a psychological phenomenon most aptly treated by a psychologist, is a big part of CPPS.

CLAIM: David Wise is supportive if you report steady progress, but "dismissive" if you do not.

I have seen absolutely no evidence of this, ever. Nobody has reported this on the forum. In fact, people have said how warm and approachable he is, if anything.

CLAIM: "No research to support" anxiety/MTrP treatment

There are tons of research supporting the various aspects of the WAP. Just look at our research forum, see all the studies linking stress to disease, linking nerves and nerve cross-talk to pelvic pain syndromes, linking anxiety to CPPS and BPS/IC. What about the recent paper "Pathophysiology of pelvic floor hypertonic disorders", by gynecologist Charles Butrick - founding member and board director of the International Pelvic Pain Society, that makes the link between muscular tension and pelvic pain? What about Dimitrakov's and Anderson's work linking low cortisol to pelvic pain? The claim that there is no research to support the WAP merely shows an ignorance of recent science.

Update: see the latest research supporting the Wise-Anderson Protocol presented at the 2010 American Urological Association meeting: Intensive Physiotherapy And Cognitive Behavior Clinic Treatment For Chronic Prostatitis/Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome

CLAIM: Rodney Anderson has retired from Stanford.

Anderson has Professor Emeritus status at Stanford and is still active in urology, publishing his most recent paper in 2009 [update: new paper in 2013]. Anderson still has an office at Stanford as well.

CLAIM: The protocol is not part of Stanford's Urology department

It was never claimed to be part of Stanford's Urology department. This is a straw man argument. When the WAP started, Anderson was part of this Urology department and and Wise worked at Stanford seeing patients referred from the Urology department. That's where the Protocol was developed and that's how got its "Stanford" name. Now that Wise no longer works there, they prefer the name Wise-Anderson Protocol.

CLAIM: No doctor from Stanford has ever offered a testimonial to the book

The co-author of the HEADACHE IN THE PELVIS is a Professor Emeritus of Urology from Stanford, which makes further endorsement from that University unnecessary and superfluous. Another straw man argument.

CLAIM: The name and location of David Wise's clinic is somehow suspicious

The implication is because clinic seminars are held at the Flamingo Conference Resort & Spa (rated 4.2 out of 5 by over 800 Expedia users), and not in a hospital setting, it cannot be worthwhile, which is clearly complete nonsense. Doctors and hospitals have been miserably ineffective at treating pelvic pain syndromes, and still are. Charles B. Kramer seems to be unhappy because there are no operating rooms, scalpels and complex machines with blinking lights!

One is reminded of the machines that go "Ping" a la Monty Python

charles b kramer

CLAIM: The WAP studies are not "controlled" studies meaning they did not have placebo arms. They are therefore not reliable.

It is impossible to have a placebo/sham for intrarectal massage, so a placebo-controlled study is not readily achievable. Does it mean they are therefore not reliable? No. It simply means they were not placebo controlled, which means they are less reliable than a placebo-controlled study. In an ideal world, we'd have a placebo-controlled study, but since that is well-nigh impossible, there is no point in carping about the results we do have. And BTW the results were published in the best peer-reviewed journals in urology, so we can rest assured they are dependable studies.

CLAIM: The book's Amazon reviews are all written by me or David Wise

Absolute rubbish, and what's more we know that many (all?) of the negative reviews are in fact written by Charles B. Kramer under different guises. Kramer has numerous accounts on other website forums, and the admins there have noted that he uses proxies as well (different ISPs and IPs). This is his modus operandi. One of the negative reviews, making all the same trumped-up charges, was written under his real name, "C. Kramer". The other negative reviews mostly come from people who all have the same profile: joined up within days of each other, made one or two short complimentary reviews of various books, then straight across to Wise's books to make long, viciously critical reviews. Unfortunately, Amazon is open to this sort of abuse. Here is one of his many Amazon reviews, posted laboriously on two separate sites, and, on different dates and under different names:

charles b kramer

Here he posts obsessively on another country's Amazon site, as "Cholly" (Charlie):

charles b kramer

As someone commented to me: "What kind of friggin' kook goes from site to site posting hate speech under different names?"

Kramer uses many identities on Amazon to post reviews (on non-verified purchases) of Wise's books. Here's another example, "Zilina":

charles b kramer

charles b kramer

So here we have 2 apparently separate people doing something highly unusual: posting a negative review on an Amazon site, and then surfing across to another country's Amazon site to post it again, weeks apart. This is almost certainly the same person at work. There are many examples of Kramer doing this.

And it goes on and on ... I have found at least 10 bogus accounts on Amazon used by Kramer to further his obsessions:

Charles Kramer lies

CLAIM: David Wise deletes negative Amazon reviews of his books

Kramer also claims that Wise deletes negative Amazon reviews. He is surely aware that only Amazon can delete reviews, and they will do so if the review falls outside their rather strict guidelines, which for instance prohibit commenting on other reviews visible on the page. But never mind, he's posted on at least 6 forums that Wise deletes all the negative reviews, and nobody has challenged that claim, until now, when I reveal it to be yet another bald-faced lie from Kramer.

CLAIM: WAP success stories are fabrications

We've had plenty of success stories at our forum, posted by people who have verifiable identities via PayPal, so there is no question about their veracity.

CLAIM: Charles B. Kramer claims he is an ex-patient of Dr Wise

He isn't, take my word for it. Dr Wise has not told me this (and wouldn't disclose private details to me anyway), but it can be deduced from material Charles B. Kramer has posted elsewhere. He makes the dumb mistake of posting that he'd just called the Wise clinic to ask for prices, then posted the next day claiming that he is an ex-patient himself. Oops. Then he posted the following day to say he'd spoken to an ex-patient who'd told him this and that, all of which he'd have known if he'd attended himself. He's not very bright.

Read the "Tracing the Troll" section for conclusive proof.

CLAIM: What are trigger points anyway? They don't even exist. And if they do exist, pressure is not the way to treat them. And why don't many doctors know about or believe they exist? Why don't they get trained in TrP treatment? It's not convincing and must be a scam.

It's not part of a doctor's standard training because it is seen as physiotherapy (physical therapy), another field. Today, much treatment of trigger points and their pain complexes are handled by myofascial trigger point therapists, massage therapists, physical therapists, osteopaths, occupational therapists, myotherapists, Certified Athletic Trainers, some naturopaths, chiropractors, dentists and acupuncturists, and other hands-on somatic practitioners who have had experience or training in the field of neuromuscular therapy (NMT). Among physicians, typically only physiatrists (physicians specializing in physical medicine and rehabilitation) are well versed in trigger point diagnosis and therapy.

Trigger points are relatively new in medicine. Doctors are extremely conservative. I have medical textbooks, published recently, that lack all sorts of modern discoveries and research. An example is CFS, which was, until recently, viewed as nonsense by the majority of doctors. Now it's mainstream medicine. Go figure. It took many years for the medical profession to accept that most gastric ulcers are caused by bacteria. If you set as your benchmark a wide acceptance by the conservative medical profession, you'll wait another 50 years. Most people have found that physical therapists know things, and can do things, that doctors do not know, and cannot do. Why is that? Even though these things can make enormous differences to our comfort and ease great pain, doctors are not able to do them and do not know about them. It's like that with myofascial trigger points (MTrPs) at this stage.

As for whether they exist or not and how best to treat them, I refer you to the recent research in this regard.

CLAIM: Webslave is in cahoots with Dr Wise, in fact, he's probably Dr Wise in disguise!

I have no connection to the Wise-Anderson clinic. I have never been there, and never met David Wise. We have spoken on the phone a handful of times, and exchanged emails. I get a small payment for hosting the schedule of Wise-Anderson Protocol Clinics on the site. Period. Oh, and I think he's a great bloke.

Claims conclusion

That's most of the arguments he presents, but there are many more, including complaints about the cost of Wise's clinic, etc ad nauseam. As someone else commented, his list of complaints reads like the Unabomber's Manifesto.

Isn't it amazing how much damage and confusion one internet nutcase on the rampage can create? Welcome to the Digital Age.


Dr David Wise put up a page at his website refuting all this nonsense, and I've copied it here.

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More details that confirm the troll's identity

Just a few more details about the obsessive troll, Charles B. Kramer, self-employed, part-time trademark & copyright attorney of New York, and serial liar. I allege above that he also went berserk about the "pudendal nerve entrapment" (PNE) theory. Here is the proof from a (now defunct) PNE forum:

charles b kramer

charles b kramer

The TIPNA admin Greg Thibeaux also stated:

To ALL TIPNA Members: We would like you to know that over the last few weeks, Charles has registered on TIPNA multiple times using aliases and that this trolling behavior continues. These aliases have included ZeroGravity, PingPing, SriHabna, SuzyKreplach, and most recently SheilaPapalis, Pooh, and PuPoo.

When we determine that a new User is Charles, we ban the Username. If we can identify a unique IP Address, it is banned as well. We are sorry that this situation continues and we are doing all that we can to address it.

Note that Kramer's website registration gives his email address as "". Please note that he used the primary username of "northernspy" at the TIPNA forum, where he caused havoc.

So the link between Charles B. Kramer and obsessive, crazy trolling behaviour was firmly established back in 2005.

charles b kramer

Kramer has also posted, on another forum, that he was treated by "Wise protocol massage girls" who used "Wise-Anderson style massage therapy (entertaining, but not helpful)". Naturally, this massage parlor "treatment" qualifies him to claim attendance at the WAP Clinic and makes him a de facto expert on the protocol.

Charles B Kramer happy ending

Charles B Kramer happy ending

charles b kramer

charles b kramer

Perhaps he's still posting 5 years after being "cured" because the whole "cured by hernia surgery" thing is just an elaborate ruse to distance himself from "Charlie", one of his alter egos, who is still in pain:

charles b kramer

If you need more proof that the obsessive troll Charles B. Kramer is behind all this, here's the clincher: Kramer created an anonymous YouTube channel called "PelvicPainTruth", which was deleted as libelous by YouTube. So he went back and created another channel called "VeritasPelvic", pretending to be a "group of people" who had attended the Wise-Anderson Clinic. This time the almost-identical videos skirt libel as finely as possible, suggesting all sorts of wrongdoing but not directly accusing. These cowardly videos attack Wise, and now me too, and are full of lies and conjecture. One of them contains a lawyerly analysis of David Wise's Internal Wand patent (the video has since been removed, but I kept a copy). Remember that Kramer's only real-world skill is as a trademarks & copyright attorney who would be highly familiar with patents. "Veritas" is a lawyerly latin term found in many legal phrases. I rest my case.

charles b kramer
charles b kramer

charles b kramer

charles b kramer

The madness goes on and on (click image below to see copy of original page) ....

charles b kramer

And on and on (click image below to see copy of original page) ...

charles b kramer
Is my thesis that Charles B. Kramer is a troll and someone who bears unreasonable grudges correct? Have other people had this experience with him, besides our forum and the PNE forums? As you'd expect, the answer is YES:
charles.b.kramer is crazy

Kramer also posts on Yahoo and Google discussion forums (as "Bluemirror" on google, "Tilyoulives" and others on Yahoo boards). He also supports his own opinions by using several different identities in one thread, such as this one where he is both "Charles B Kramer" as well as "Bluemirror". He's usually raving about some "scam" or another.

Yet more proof (do you really need it?):

charles b kramer

But would an attorney know anything about making videos? Yes, this one certainly does:

charles b kramer

Charles B. Kramer has also admitted numerous times that he knows nothing about medicine (which does not stop him constantly giving bad medical advice!):

charles b kramer

charles b kramer

charles b kramer

The megatroll Charles B. Kramer and his continuing libels and lies on the internet, including his latest efforts, are further discussed in our member forums (registration required). Register and read more if this topic interests you, or if he has confused you about treatment options.

I hope readers who have pelvic pain appreciate my exposé of this nasty troll. I've saved you from following his demented advice or believing his allegations. Meanwhile, on other forums, there are people who are rushing off to have inguinal hernia surgery, urged on by Kramer, as guinea pigs (he almost certainly has not had the hernia surgery himself yet, but wants to see what happens to others).

charles b kramer

charles b. kramer at work

Kramer wrote to me and absurdly claimed his total innocence. He clearly underestimates other people.

charles bernard kramer
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The Troll's other activities

Charles Bernard Kramer unlicensed attorney

Charles B Kramer unreliable

charles.b.kramer tardemarks

References and associates for Charles B Kramer on the web

What Kramer looks like in real life:

 ‎Transactional Intellectual Property and Corporate Attorney

Charles B. Kramer

Email addresses and


List of Known Associates of Charles B. Kramer

If you do not want to be associated with the actions and behavior of Kramer, please email
(Names removed on request so far: 2)

Amelia Amon
Ana Greenspan
Ana Greenspan (Ana Goldstein)
Andrea Syracuse-Silverstein
Andy Bodes
B Frank Pearse
Bill Murphy
Bill Sacks
Bobby Prince
Carl Milianta
Carol Lipnik
Catlyn Lambert
Charles Ritchie
Christine Hunt
Claudia Sainsot
Cole Nahal
Dan Linton
Daniel McIsaac
Dave Menconi
David Brunn Perry
David Fischer
David Langendoen
David Nelson
Debbie Kenny (Debbie O'Reilly)
Denise Duffell
Diana Berry
Dominic Milano
Donald Vega
Dorit Grinberg
Douglas McGill
Dustin Lowes
Eileen Simonetti
Eleanor Lang
Eric Goldberg
Ess Max Lewis
Eyal Adanya
Faber Fedor
George Jacobsen
Georgia Tech
Gerry J. Elman
Ginger Milo
Gloria Yaeger
Gordon Walton
Greg Costikyan
Hans Zaunere
Harold B. Woolfalk
Hayne Suthon
Heather Holland Wheaton
Hortensia Santana
Ian Klapper
Iris L Stowers
Israel Milstein
James A. Biederman
James Biederman
James Sullivan
Janet Steinman
Jean Marie Offenbacher
Jennifer Knight
Jesse Costello Jacobsen
Jim Cooper
John Lichtenstein
John Mattras
Johnny Lanzillotto
Jon Maddog Hall
Joseph Sexton
Judy Nylon
Julia Bulia
Karen Chun
Karen J
Katherine Pendill
Kellam R. Clark
Kevin Gliner
Kevin Malony
Koshek Swaminathan
L Inda F Eng
Lani Minella
Larry Martin
Laura Cantrell
Lawrence Greenberg
Leonard Smith
Leslie Lowe
Linda Horbey Fourie
Linda Smith
Lorcan Otway
Lyle Schlesinger
Marc Blumer
Marc Feldman
Maria Minori
Martin Rosenfeld
Mary Lou Wittmer
Maureen Costello
Michael Childress
Michael Kass
Michael Lebron
Michael Marchegay
Michael Montopoli
Michael Reddy
Milena Sgarbi
Miriam Gilbert
Nancy Santiago
Naz Martino
Neke Carson
Ny Bikejumble
Paul Thorpe
Pauline Smith (Pauline A. Smith)
Penny Arcade (Susana Ventura)
Peter James Lee
Peter Stampfel
R.h. Tugs
Ranga Nambakam
Reba Linker
Richard Zimmer
Rob Prince
Roger Keating
Salleigh Rothrock
Sarah Quinn
Scott Gentry
Scott Miller
Sharon Manning Lew
Shelby Voice
Tatiana Mycak


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DISCLAIMER: I do not speak for David Wise or represent him, and I am not connected in any way to him or his clinic, and likewise David Wise does not speak for me.